[CLIENT INTERVIEW] Sarah's Story: How to Get Promoted and Better Paid After Flipping No to Yes

Start of Transcript

Jamie Lee:

Hello everyone. My name is Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach. I help smart women who hate office politics get promoted and better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. Today, I'm joined by one of my best clients, Sarah Eadie. Sarah has been working with me for over a couple of years, and her story is so inspiring and really relevant to women who want to up-level in their career, get past no and I'm really excited to hear from her today. She is a product marketing manager at Indeed. Sarah, would you share with us where you're joining us from today?

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. So I am here in Newport, Oregon. Typically, my husband and I are based in Austin, Texas. But we are taking advantage of not needing to be physically in an office, we made the drive all the way from Austin here to Newport, and so happy that we did it. The Oregon Coast is one of my favorite places in the entire world.

Jamie Lee:

Awesome. When I think about you, Sarah, I think about you as somebody who really exemplifies what it is to become bolder, braver and better paid, and then have the audacity to take that and make your life even more richer. So I love that you're making your dream come true, working from this beautiful place in the Oregon Coast. So cool.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. It's a true bucket list item. I think at some point in my early twenties, I wrote down that I wanted to winter in the Oregon Coast and I recognize that it's an opportunity to do that, to live that rich life, and so it would be a miss if I didn't take it.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. Would you has shared with us your story of how you got your job, your current job, because I think it'll be really inspiring to those of us who are joining and listening [crosstalk 00:01:59] watching.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah, absolutely. So I was working in content marketing for a company that had been selling stand-alone software products, and I was hired on to help them develop a bunch of product-related content for the launch of their flagship SAS product.

Jamie Lee:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sarah Eadie:

So I worked there for a couple of years, I learned a ton. And I was starting to think about what my next gig would be, and I looked around at the body of work that I had developed at this company, and I was like, "This is kind of product marketing." I had heard of product marketing from my manager, and I saw that product marketers make $20 to $30,000 a year more on average in the roles that I was looking at than content marketers. And so I said, "Well, I have this foundational skill set, why not try to leverage it in this bigger, more strategic, more interesting to me position."

Sarah Eadie:

And so that was a pretty big shift because when you are looking for product marketing roles, typically they expect that you have some existing product marketing experience, or some sort of product marketing background. So, I started looking around and I saw an opening at Indeed, which is where I'm currently working. I asked a friend to put in a referral for me. He put in a very nice referral. And I had the initial conversation with the recruiter and we really hit it off. I was a little bit nervous, but I went in there and I had my talking points prepped. The conversation was going really well. She said, "I'll get back to you in a couple days and just see."

Sarah Eadie:

So she got back to me and she said... What I had dreaded, right? Which was that, "You don't have the type of product marketing background that the team is looking for. So I think it's going to be a pass on this particular role for you. But what I can offer you..." And she had kind of alluded to this in our first conversation, "I can offer you this informational interview with the hiring manager." So I said, "Absolutely. I would love to take this conversation with the hiring manager." I went to Indeed, and I actually was just talking to the hiring manager who I'm still friends with and work with today, about this conversation, because she I don't think knew that I had been passed on for the role. And so-

Jamie Lee:

But you got a no.

Sarah Eadie:

... I got a no, yes.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Sarah Eadie:

And so I walked in, I was going to be very respectful of her time. And she's like, "This is the cafeteria. We have better food than Facebook." And I was like, "Oh, this is the beautiful campus." "These are the types of things that you'd be working on." And so she paused for breath after telling me all these incredible things that I could be doing at Indeed that of course, I had already been turned down for. And she turns to me and she's like, "Would you consider working here?" And I said respectfully, "I don't want to be misleading, I was turned down for this role, but absolutely I'm still interested in it if not more so, having had this conversation with you." And she was like, "Oh! Well, let's bring you into interview." And the rest is history, right? They brought me in, the interviews were really good.

Sarah Eadie:

And now I was promoted from an associate product marketing manager to a product marketing manager within my first year. So, less than a year after I joined, and the hiring manager that I had this conversation with still says that I'm one of the best hires that I've made to Indeed.

Jamie Lee:

Amazing. You flipped a no into a resounding yes.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah.

Jamie Lee:

And what do you think was the critical thing that made you able to show up? Even though you got a no, right? Instead of being sorry for yourself, feeling like, "Oh, I've been rejected. I can't show up to this beautiful cafeteria and just be myself." You did, right? What was the thing that made that possible for you?

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah, candidly, I think it was just more information, more connections for me. And so I thought to myself "This no, it's just a step in the process." I was kind of prepared, I think through the coaching work that we were doing that I would hear no, but I've always been a proponent, I think that you've only strengthened this in me that no is just more information. It's just part of the process. I only needed one person to say yes, I think what was unique is that they said no and then they said yes.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. And you weren't even seeking out the yes, you were just open to more connection, more information, more conversation.

Sarah Eadie:

That's right. And actually, it's so funny you say that because when I was recently talking to this hiring manager about this experience, one of the things I said is that I wondered if part of the reason why we hit it off and why I felt so calm and comfortable is because the pressure of hearing that no, or hearing that yes was already off of me. And so I could just show up very authentically, really focused on connecting with her, hearing her background, hearing the type of work that she was doing at Indeed. So I think in some ways I tricked myself into showing up as the best, most grounded version of myself.

Jamie Lee:

And that's so powerful when you're willing to hear the no-

Sarah Eadie:

Yes.

Jamie Lee:

... just like see that no as just an event. It doesn't mean anything about you. You can still show up, you can still believe in what is possible for you, right? You had that. So good. Thanks so much for sharing that. So let's backtrack a little bit. Let's go all the way back. So what was the problem that you did experience in your career that you were struggling with before you sought out coaching?

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. So as you mentioned, it's been a long period of time working with you, but I think if I remember correctly, it really was this transition between going from this one type of marketing, this one type of role that I was really comfortable with into this new type of role at a company that is... Indeed's bigger than anywhere that I've ever worked before. We had quarterly review cycles, which I saw as an opportunity four times a year to ask for more, to ask for things. So that was really important to have coaching on. And also it was just a brand new space for me, and I think I came to coaching with less of a challenge. I was already negotiating very successfully. I was already hustling, making connections, networking. I had a vision of where I wanted to go, but coaching for me is about seizing, both exploring and then seizing the full breadth of opportunity that's available to me.

Jamie Lee:

Okay. So tell us a little bit about before you got coaching and you were new in this position, what was that experience like? As you were trying to see yourself in a new opportunity, new position, was it stressful? Walk us through that.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. So I think for me, there have been two big challenges that coaching has helped me out a lot with. First it's this idea that anyone has the power to derail your career or tank your project. Just this idea that you are always in control of your outcomes and that you have the ability with managing your feelings, processing your thoughts, changing the way that you're thinking about a situation to take control. So that was the big one. And that was really hard for me to grapple with, just this idea that you can let people that you find to be challenging work with, be challenging and not let it influence your success or your happiness, right? Thinking more broadly outside of work.

Sarah Eadie:

I think the other thing too that's been really helpful with coaching is this idea of not being able to hustle to the next level, right? I am someone who has been working all through my twenties. I remember billing freelance clients out of the back of particularly slow college classrooms. So I've really been at 110% through most of the last decade of my life. And now I'm in this position where I have new opportunities, bigger scope and role, more people looking to me for leadership. And what I do with that opportunity is really important to me. And I recognize that I can't keep hustling through this, that I need to be sure that I'm taking good care of myself and making very loving, kind, less hustle culture decisions to get to where I want to go. So those, I think have been the two big pieces is just maintaining control even in the face of challenging relationships, challenging projects, challenging conversations, and making sure that I'm taking good care of myself, because ultimately that's what's going to fuel my success and take me to even new heights.

Jamie Lee:

Right. Exactly. Because as you advance, you can't keep hustling 110, 120, you're going to burn out, you have more responsibilities, right? More tasks, and so the lesson here is how do you actually do less and create a bigger impact? Do less hustling make more money? Yeah. So I'm curious, you've already shared about the process of coaching, but what was different about engaging in this coaching relationship with me, one-on-one for you?

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. So I have an awesome, powerful brain with lots of thoughts that at any given time, I take to be 100% accurate and my reality. And even as I learn to question those thoughts, there are still ones that exist below the surface that I can't access, that I'm so close to that I can't quite see it. And so I had done lots of self-help books, like self-lead coaching programs. And what to me is so different about the one-to-one experience is that while I could probably dig, excavate, get to those underlying beliefs that I needed to change or thoughts that I needed to shift about any given situation, I've always found that it's so much faster, easier, and just like an expedited way to do that working one-to-one with you. So that's what's been really helpful for me is just to have someone to very quickly be like, "Oh, hey, that thing that you think is real, that you think is holding you back is actually just a thought that's happening in your brain. And it's like [inaudible 00:13:46]."

Jamie Lee:

Right. Yeah. Take for example, the myth that one person can derail, one person can totally ruin your career, right? Because when we think that we feel at the effect of other people, we feel like a victim, we feel paralyzed and small, which is not who you are. As you said, you have a very powerful brain, but it makes total sense, because we all have a part of a brain that's bratty to us.

Sarah Eadie:

Totally.

Jamie Lee:

And then we also have the brilliant parts of our brain that helps us advance and do our jobs and be functioning humans and be able to think towards the future. And so maybe you can describe if there was a moment, a specific moment that you recall that you realized this coaching was really working for you?

Sarah Eadie:

So it's not an early moment. It's pretty recent, but it's so powerful.

Jamie Lee:

It took a while.

Sarah Eadie:

No, not that at all.

Jamie Lee:

I'm kidding.

Sarah Eadie:

It's just a particularly powerful example for me of how all of these pieces come together.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Sarah Eadie:

So you and I, I think late in Q4, so in late December maybe early January, we're having conversations about time, time management, my relationship with time, feeling like time scarcity, and you encouraged me to connect my thinking about money, which has always felt very easy for me to create wealth, to get raises, to negotiate. Not that the process is easy, but just that's something that I've been practicing for a long time that I feel very comfortable with. And so you said, "Can you connect these ideas that you have about time scarcity to these more abundant thoughts that you have about wealth and money?"

Sarah Eadie:

And so I was really thinking about my relationship to money and just thinking those thoughts that you would encourage me to think. And so the day before I think we had our second and third coaching call of January, I was coming back from vacation, which is something that you had encouraged me all through Q3 and Q4 to take, which I finally got the message. And after a week of thinking these thoughts of like, "I'm a powerful money creator, money comes easily to me, people are always giving me things." I opened up my work inbox to read that I had received a Q4 bonus, something that is rare or was more rare I think with some of the COVID situation. I received an added bonus, I think just for showing up and kicking us all year long which is certainly something that you had supported me in.

Sarah Eadie:

I got Target gift cards for my mom for my Christmas gift. And a friend of mine gave me 50 bucks to one of my favorite pizza places. And so, I think we could debate the metaphysics of manifestation and what that looks like, but it was very powerful for me to come back from vacation where I was celebrating a year of really working hard, but also working on loving myself to the next level, to just an inbox and mailbox that were overflowing with gifts from people and recognition from the company that I work for.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. So you created as a result abundance of both money and time. And you got to enjoy it, but so for some people who are watching this, there might be like, "Why are we talking about all these thoughts, but what does she do? Tell me what she did?" Right? And so, as you said you've always been very successful at asking, confidently asking for what you wanted. So talk to us about what is the difference when you take those actions, right? Which is being assertive, asking for what you want, like doing good work, right? And being confident in your value. But what is the difference when you have a different thought about it? Like, "I'm a powerful money creator." As opposed to, "Oh my God, I need to hustle. I need to do this."

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. That's a great question. I think the difference, and I'm even just thinking back to as, Sarah, who would be very, and still is sometimes very preoccupied with how you do these things versus how you think and feel about these things. But I think the difference between taking action with thoughts that feel aligned to who it is that you want to be, or the type of leader that you're trying to become, it's just that it feels better. You and I had a conversation around an email exchange that happened as part of a launch process last year that was in some ways, very stressful. It was the first time that we'd ever done a big launch like this in this space, I was at the helm paving the way for a new launch experience. And of course things happen.

Sarah Eadie:

I got an email from someone that just felt a little tense and I was feeling very reactive. And in the end, I sent an email that is pretty similar to the one that I would have sent before or after coaching. I think the difference that came through both in my language and in how I was able to send the email and feel comfortable and confident about it is just that we were able to process my feelings of guilt or not enough, or I should've seen this coming or I'm fucking up, and just change that to something that allowed me to send a note that felt more grounded, more powerful and more in control. Again, taking that piece from like, "Oh, this person is doing this to me." To being like, "No, I have full control over how I respond to this."

Jamie Lee:

Right. Right. And when you do it from a place of feeling in control, more grounded, more calm, even though you're taking the same actions, the result is different because you're less exhausted.

Sarah Eadie:

Definitely.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. You're less... Go ahead.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. And sometimes you choose to take the same action. Sometimes you take different action, but I think to your point, it feels better and you're right. You get a different... It's just a different flavor, right? You're getting a different result.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. Maybe the flavor is richer.

Sarah Eadie:

Sure. Yeah. I'm down with that flavor.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. Okay. So how is your career? How's your life different now that you are approaching these actions with feeling better from a place of feeling grounded and more in control?

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah. I think for me, when I think back to the goals that we had set for me when I joined Indeed, they almost seem... They were important goals to set, in retrospect from where I am now, they're very cute, right? It's like, "Oh, you wanted to have a conversation with this person? Now you're having conversation with these people" or, "Oh, you wanted to lead this? Oh, now you're leading these, these projects that are much greater scope where you have more responsibility, more opportunity to demonstrate leadership." And so for me, coaching has allowed me to broaden my horizons without freaking me out or unnecessarily overwhelming me, or creating more stress. It's really been this balance of growing the types of opportunities that I have, and that are available to me while also shrinking the potential negative impact on my mental health, my stress levels. So that has been just exceptional.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. So good. I really appreciate you, Sarah. I think you exemplify what it means to have this grounded power, right? And you recognize that it really comes from you. It comes from you choosing the thoughts that you want to think from your mind. And it's like inexhaustible source of power, the way I see it. Yeah.

Sarah Eadie:

Yeah.

Jamie Lee:

Thank you so much for your time. Is there anything else that you would want to share? Let's say, somebody is watching this and they're also thinking about, "Oh, I want to switch my career. I want to get into product marketing or something that pays better. I'm just scared about hearing no, or scared about doing it wrong or failing." Would you have a word of advice for somebody who's like that?

Sarah Eadie:

Absolutely. I think that the things that you do tactically are not unimportant, right? Doing it is important. So making the decision and committing to it. I think that for me, taking control of that shift, and not waiting for someone to tell me that I could or could not be a product marketer was so valuable and so scary but fun. I think that there's like nothing more empowering for me than picking a path, starting down that path and beginning to get traction. So that's probably a lot of advice in a very little anecdote, but I think deciding where it is that you want to go, committing to it with action, and loving the process of beginning to see traction behind your progress, that's just so much fun. And that is, I think why I look back on that shift with so much pride and also so much love for the Sarah who made that possible, despite having no fucking clue where it was going to go.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. So it with love and you could have fun even when it's scary. I love that.

Sarah Eadie:

Yes. Yes.

Jamie Lee:

Go for something that is scary and fun while you love yourself to even greater heights of success.

Sarah Eadie:

Perfect.

Jamie Lee:

So thank you so much for your amazing example. I know people will find this story inspiring. I appreciate you, Sarah.

Sarah Eadie:

I appreciate you, Jamie. You're wonderful.

Jamie Lee:

Thank you.

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