[CLIENT INTERVIEW] Charlotte's Story: How to Reclaim Confidence After Burnout

Charlotte reached her breaking point with burnout. 

One day she walked out of a high profile job, called her husband from the bus stop, and said, "I think I just torpedoed my career." 

Yet, a few years after that fateful day, what she once thought of as her career’s lowest of low points became what she now describes as the beginning of the "most rewarding professional journey I’ve ever been on." 

Months into a new job at a big company, she reached out to me for a consultation. 

Her goal was to regain her confidence, pave a path forward for herself, and overcome the worry that she’d burn out again.

Through coaching, she became less and less anxious, more self-assured, as she cultivated support from a network of internal champions who commended her for articulating her vision. 

Within a few months of completing coaching with me, Charlotte's promotion to Executive Director was fast-tracked.

Here’s the update she sent me a few weeks after the interview was recorded:

[INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT]

Jamie Lee:

Hello, hello. My name is Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach. I help smart women who hate office politics get promoted and better paid without throwing anyone under the bus. Today, we have one of my best clients, Charlotte Rocker, who works in life sciences. And I think her experience, her story, is so valuable because she, through her journey, learned to reclaim her self-confidence after burnout. She created a compelling vision for her career as a result of that. In this process, she engaged in brave conversations to get buy-in and support to make that vision closer to reality and make that vision an inevitability for herself. And so without further ado, I'd like to introduce Charlotte. Hi, Charlotte.

Charlotte Rocker:

Hi, Jamie. Thanks for doing this with me.

Jamie Lee:

I really appreciate you making the time for this interview, as well. So, before we get started, would you give us a quick intro? Tell us where you are.

Charlotte Rocker:

Sure. So yeah, as Jamie mentioned, my career is in life sciences. I work at a pharmaceutical company, and I had started that job about three months prior to reaching out to Jamie. And Jamie mentioned that my goal in coaching was to reclaim my self-confidence after burnout, and that's exactly true. I had been in a difficult position. I had taken some time off of the role that I was in previously, and in that time had successfully secured my job at the company that I'm at now, but was finding that I was getting in my own way with the potential of my new role because I was still struggling with sort of reconciling the burnout episode that I had gone through. And that was what led me to reach out to you, Jamie, in the first place.

Jamie Lee:

Oh, thanks for sharing that. And before you reached out to me, what was that experience like? How did it feel, to try to solve this problem on your own? Was it frustrating? Was it stressful? What was that like for you?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah, I think frustrating is actually a really good word for it, because it was in a position where I had put myself in a successful place in the new job. I had even, I would say, put myself in a successful place to secure that job in the first place. And even with that, other people were seeing that track record, I was getting validation from other people, but I wasn't giving myself validation. And I've had other points in my career where I've gotten feedback that I'm the thing that's standing in between myself and that next level.

Charlotte Rocker:

And I felt it dramatically in this context. I think because of the severity of the burnout episode I had gone through, I was experiencing that even more. And I was in a place in my career where if I was able to go after it, I had even more potential to realize, but I was the piece that was keeping me from realizing it. Yeah, so that cognitive dissonance and that frustration I think is a good characterization of what it was feeling like.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. So it's really, let's just notice that it was like, everything was going well for you externally. You're in this new job, you have the potential, people are giving you validation, and it's like this cognitive dissonance, as you said. It's something how you were processing, maybe like internalizing, perhaps, where you were, that was in the way. So how was coaching with me different for you as a solution to this specific problem?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah, I think there were a few components that I was really grateful for. One was just the accountability of having the weekly sessions meant that I was dedicating mental time, and calendar time to engaging in this conversation every week, which meant that I was really taking that time to assess, to look at what was going on now, to think about what the future might look like in a dedicated way. I think you and I have talked about sort of how do I make sure that I'm valuing the time and myself as much as I would value an appointment or time with somebody else, and coaching gave me a mechanism to do that. So I think that was one piece.

Charlotte Rocker:

I think another piece was a result of those weekly sessions, having those small steps that I could work on in any given week to see the benefit of the coaching. So one of the first things that you had me do, and my eyes are going over here because of my home office, that's where my whiteboard is, which Jamie knows, was to write down one piece of positive feedback that I was getting from anyone on my team in a given day. And within two weeks, I had a whiteboard full of just positive feedback from people. And when I was in those moments of getting in my own way, to be able to sit and look at that tangible thing was a really nice boost in some of those moments. So that was another thing.

Charlotte Rocker:

And then I think the third thing that was particularly helpful for me was the frame that you use of talking through where physically I'm experiencing certain emotions and being able to recognize sort of where anxiety hits me, which for me is more in the chest and shoulders area, versus where confidence hits me, which for me is much more stomach and center of gravity. And that's useful for two reasons. The first one is when I'm in one of those states, I'm better able to recognize it. But the second one is then being able to take the initiative to try to channel my energy more into the calm place and how that changes the way that I'm showing up. So those are just a few examples of how it's been really helpful.

Jamie Lee:

This is so good. Thank you for sharing that. And for the people who are listening or watching this, maybe you can help connect the dots. So you start to take in the positive feedback, you start to be in your body more and experience your emotion, locate it, and notice it. And so then what happens next that helps you be able to create that compelling vision and engage in conversations?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah. So as Jamie knows, when I started at this role, the role that I'm in is one that it was my first time coming into this company, and it's a position that's meant to be sort of a rotation. You stay in this role for 18 to 24 months. You go on and do something else. One of the tangible areas where I think that lack of self-confidence that I had was impacting me was in the career development conversations that I was having, which are a natural part of this position because people know you're only here for a little while, so they want to talk to you about what you're going to do next.

Charlotte Rocker:

And I didn't particularly know, because I'm new in this role, I'm in a big organization, it's a multinational company. I wanted to give myself the time to explore. And at the same time, I'm only going to have opportunities open up for me that I ask for and advocate for myself. So where coaching was incredibly helpful was to sort of work through how can I approach those conversations more from a place of confidence. How can I better articulate what it is that I want to go after and start to advocate for that?

Charlotte Rocker:

In my case, I think one of the cognitive switches was coming from a place of looking at certain leadership positions and thinking that those aren't for me, shifting to why can't those be for me, and how can I advocate for them being for me? And once I started to do that, once I started to say, in conversations with senior leadership, that my aspiration is to go down this commercial leadership path, and here are the questions that I have around that, even just having made that statement, the affirmation that I got, again from senior executives, if I want to commend you for owning your career, I want to commend you for having that vision, and then they're helping me problem solve that, I think I got more out of those conversations. I think I made a stronger impression on them. I'm still in my current role, but I think I'm already setting myself up to move into a stronger position when I move on to whatever my next role is going to be.

Jamie Lee:

Yes, and you also took your brain to how this isn't just for you, it is for the organization. It is serving the team. It is serving because you get to add greater value at a bigger scope.

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah. And that, actually, I'm glad that you brought that up because one of the things that you and I did was try to articulate, separate from jobs, separate from roles, separate from the company, what's my vision for my career? And we landed on the idea that I want to positively impact the trajectories of as many people as possible. And the way that I could do that, one of the ways that I can do that, is to be responsible for more people.

Charlotte Rocker:

If I am in charge of a bigger team, there are more people whose trajectories that I can impact. And that frame I think was really useful. And the frame, exactly, as you're saying, or if what I want to do is help my team and my company solve critical problems, I have to put myself in the place where those problems are being solved in order to make that contribution. And inevitably those are more senior positions. So yeah, I'm glad that you put that frame on it.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, absolutely. As women leaders, the more we grow, the more women who follow our steps get to see the example, and that makes it even more possible for them. So love this for you so much. Okay, so when was the moment you realized that coaching was working for you?

Charlotte Rocker:

I was thinking about this question and how I was going to answer it, because I'm trying to get down to one specific moment, and I don't know that I have it, but I think that it's sort of a series of little moments that were light bulbs. One of them I already mentioned, was that whiteboard exercise that I went through. And that just gave me that sort of daily check that I found so helpful and so reinforcing.

Charlotte Rocker:

I think one was that light bulb moment of this isn't for me, how can this be for me, and to shift that frame and realize that, I mentioned earlier that my biggest challenge was that I was getting in my own way. And you can convince yourself that, oh, well, you're getting all this feedback from people, and this dialogue that you have going on internally, you're the only one who sees that, but that dialogue and those who are watching this who are more prone to self-doubt probably can sympathize with this on some level, that dialogue affects everything. It affects your body language and how you're showing up. It affects the questions that you're asking. It affects the framing of what you're doing. And when I was able to quiet some of that, it put me in a place of showing up more confidently in conversations, which put other people in a place of responding to me more confidently.

Charlotte Rocker:

So back to your question of how I know when it was working, if I think about conversations I had with my boss or with senior executives earlier on when I started, and how I framed my career in those conversations, versus the conversations that I had after coaching, where I was starting from a position of saying, I want to get into a commercial leadership path and what are the attributes that I need to show to set myself up to get there, and what are the best positions that'll help me demonstrate that, that was such a different conversation than what I'd been having previously. So that's another example.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. How is this for me? That one question just helped you shift your mindset, your feelings, your behavior, and your results. So good. And so then how is your career different now that you are actively solving this problem? Now you'll have the tools to solve for it on your own, as well. So what has changed for you?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah, I think the biggest change is this clarity that I am pursuing a commercial leadership trajectory and then I go into development conversations, excuse me, I go into development conversations with that frame. And I'm starting from that being the assumption of this is where I'm going, versus the aspiration of, well, okay, if I do this or I do that, then maybe I'll get there. No, let's start with assuming this is where I'm going to be, and then we think about how we build the pieces to get there.

Charlotte Rocker:

So I'm still in my current role. I am learning a lot and developing a lot in my current role, but where I think it's impacting me is now having a more concrete definition of what my next path will be and how that next step gets me more toward that ultimate objective that we were talking about.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. So good. For those who are watching this, it can be just as simple as this is what's going to happen versus maybe, maybe not. This is what I'm going for. This is my decision. This is my vision. I'm in it. I'm working towards it, rather than maybe, maybe not. So different and so confident. Love it. So I think people who are watching this will take away, you know, use the whiteboard, take in the positive feedback, right?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yes. Keep it somewhere where you can see it. It's very helpful.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're already getting it, so just take it in, receive it, and ask what if this is for me? That's a great question. And do you have any other advice or tips for people who are watching, women leaders who are watching this, and maybe they have a similar experience as you, where they've been burnt out and they're sort of hesitant, worrying that if they were to set a compelling vision for themselves, they might burn out again?

Charlotte Rocker:

Yeah. I think that's a really important piece to keep in mind. On the advice side, I would say, particularly for those who are experiencing burnout, I really remember the day that it finally became too much, the day that I came into the office and said, "I need to take some time. I need to focus on myself. This isn't working." And for anyone who's been on a high-achieving path, that idea of no, I'm going to stop, I'm going to take a step back, that feels like failure. And it felt like a failure for me.

Charlotte Rocker:

And I have a very strong sensory memory of standing on the corner in New York City, waiting for the bus, and calling my husband and saying, "I think I just torpedoed my career." And for me to have felt like that, and then to be in the place that I'm in now, which is about 14 months later, I never would have thought in that moment that I could get here or that I would get here. So the advice that I would have is those moments that feel so negative, that there's so much potential in those moments, and you don't have to change yourself, change your values, change your personal life. You don't have to change those things to get to the place where you're realizing more of your potential.

Charlotte Rocker:

What you do have to do is change your inner narrative. And I think a lot of us put pressure on ourselves of, oh, well, I should be able to figure this out. I should be able to change my own narrative. I should be able to change my own path. But having the strength to say, no, I need some help in this, that's I think what has been most powerful for me. And one of the things that I'm grateful for at the moment that we're in is I think you see more and more successful women and successful leaders being vulnerable about this. I see executives in my own company posting videos of their coaching sessions on LinkedIn.

Charlotte Rocker:

And the second that you see someone that you admire working through those types of problems and being able to be open about the fact that they're working through those problems, that's so inspirational, too, so even reframing what it is to look for coaching, that you're setting yourself up to be a better leader and a better mentor as a result of the work that you're doing for yourself, that's another thing I think that's really valuable.

Jamie Lee:

Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm sure so many people will find that story inspiring, that even when you feel like you've hit rock bottom, that you've torpedoed your career, it's not the end. This is just the middle of the journey. You can re-bounce. You can bounce back. You are resilient. You are resourceful. So Charlotte, I appreciate you.

Charlotte Rocker:

And you, Jamie. Thank you, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk through this with you.

Jamie Lee:

You're most welcome. All right, bye.

Charlotte Rocker:

Bye.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]