[CLIENT INTERVIEW] Roseanne's Story: How to Get Promoted on the Frontlines of the Pandemic

In this interview, you’ll learn:

• Common errors smart women make when we assume responsibility for other people’s actions and feelings, and how that can lead to stress and burnout

• Why we make these errors and the coaching insight Roseanne applied to stop making the same mistakes

• The mindset that helped Roseanne share more of her ideas in the company Slack of 6,000+ people, raising her visibility as a result

• How getting initially turned down for a promotion didn’t stop Roseanne from securing a promotion and pay raise

• What emotional agency is and how it helped Roseanne overcome perfectionism, take action towards her goals, and prevent burnout while working on the frontlines of the pandemic

• How Roseanne learned to deal with impostor syndrome, to be less bothered by internal politics, and to stay focused on her own growth until she achieved her goals

If you’re a smart mid-career woman seeking solutions to navigate office politics and get promoted and better paid, I can help you. You’re invited to book a complimentary consultation, where I’ll help you see how we might work together to solve your specific problem.

Click here to book your consult

Start of Transcript

Jamie Lee:

Hello. Hello. My name is Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach. I help smart women who hate office politics get promoted and better paid. Today, I'm joined by one of my best clients, Roseanne, and I really wanted to share Roseanne's story, because not only is she working on the front lines of this pandemic, she has stayed focused on her career goals. She got promoted while managing the overwhelm of working through the pandemic. So I want to open the floor. Roseanne, would you give us a quick introduction, quick hello? Tell us what you do and where you are.

Roseanne Hui:

Sure. So I'm Roseanne and I started with a company, a biotech startup, in response to this pandemic, and we are a COVID testing facility. We started in Los Angeles, and we quickly branched out to DC in Texas, and we're testing all over the country now. We test about 5 to 10% of the country's testing. So I got promoted to the manager position a few months ago, and I'm managing a small group in Texas, San Dimas, and Washington DC. We function as sort of a SWAT team. We are the problem solvers and the troubleshooters, and we function as a liaison between the lab and customer support. So it's really been a wild ride.

Jamie Lee:

Awesome. Awesome. And so I'm curious, would you share with the audience the problem? What was the problem that you were having in your career that you were struggling with before you sought out coaching?

Roseanne Hui:

I had just really entered the workforce about six years ago, and I had been working in a hospital and in a research lab, and those are very independent jobs. It required a certain degree of collaboration with your teammates, but really it was, you were practicing within your scope. You had a certain set of responsibilities that were easy to accomplish. And that was just your goal for, that was just what was expected of you. So this was the first time I was entering something that was rapidly growing. The company now has 6,000 employees since March. And so a lot of it really dependent on creativity and ingenuity and speaking up for yourself and being confident. And a lot of it was navigating office politics and really trying to navigate different kinds of people. Because the company was growing so quickly, hiring was, happened very quickly, more so than a typical company pre-pandemic. So just learning how to navigate that was really challenging for me.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And I recall that you specifically wanted to be able to maneuver with tact.

Roseanne Hui:

Yes.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And you shared with me that you're an introvert and so you wanted to be able to develop self-confidence to speak up for yourself and take credit for what you wanted, even when you are an introvert. So before coaching, what was that like for you? What was it like to try to solve this problem on your own?

Roseanne Hui:

It was incredibly frustrating, because I felt like I was completely responsible for other people's actions, and just knowing that I don't have control over everything. I'm so used to having everything perfectly lined up and have everything controlled, but I'm also not outspoken about it, too. So that kind of was a detriment to me, as well, because I really needed to be honest with my own feelings and come to terms with my own insecurities and not necessarily failures, but just little things that I wanted to make sure that I faced, that I could iron out, as I began this new journey. So it was incredibly frustrating to do this on my own. And I kept thinking that it was her fault that this was happening to me, or it was somebody else's fault, or I should be able to control what the other person is feeling, they shouldn't be acting out in a certain way. That's my fault, and I should take it upon myself. So that was very stressful and not healthy to think like that at all.

Roseanne Hui:

So that's why I approached Jamie, because I think I thought that I could definitely learn from someone else who has a lot more experience in the work field. And just being able to do that and to show up for myself was just a huge investment that I could, just absolutely amazing that I... I'm so proud of myself for doing that.

Jamie Lee:

And also, I just want to note that it's so normal, it's so commonplace for working women to blame themselves, to be like, "Oh my gosh, if someone's not happy, if somebody else is not doing their job somehow, it's my fault.”

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly, exactly.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, and I think you're not the only one, and it's something that's gets socialized, something that we get taught as very young girls, that we're somehow responsible for other people's feelings, which we are not.

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly, exactly. I'm glad I'm realizing this right now, as someone who's in late twenties. It's been really difficult to learn how to navigate this. But having all the tools that I have now, I'm still learning. I'm never going to stop learning, but I feel so much more prepared in dealing with any issues that really come along. Since our last meeting, there have been issues that have arisen. And I felt really confident. I mean, things will not get resolved in the way that I always want to, but I felt confident and happy in the way that I was able to respond, given what I've learned from you.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. So even after our coaching journey wrapped up, you were able to use the tools. So share with us, what was different about the coaching journey that you went through with me? How was it different as a solution to the problems you were facing?

Roseanne Hui:

If I didn't go through coaching, I don't know if I would have been able to... I don't think I would have been promoted, honestly. Just because, I didn't give myself the credit that I deserved in my work. So going through this coaching and finding this as a solution has been immensely, immensely helpful. Just because, I have to look at myself and look at my achievements and look and give credit for what I've done. And I think before that, before coaching, I hadn't really looked at what I brought to the table. And it was, I was very quiet about it. I'm an introvert, and so just coming to terms with that has been a life-changing experience for me, for my own personal work, and also my development in the career, as well.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. So some people might be like, "Wait, so you just give yourself credit and that's it, you get promoted?" Tell us a little bit more about that journey for you. When you learned to give yourself credit right, to take credit and claim credit for yourself, how did that impact how you have conversations at work? What became different for you in how you engage with them or initiate them?

Roseanne Hui:

So for me it was, because this company has grown so quickly and it's across the nation, a lot of the communication and a lot of what you present yourself as is your... is how active you are on Slack. Unfortunately, that's what it is. But because this company's so large, any ideas are really shared across Slack and email. And just being vocal about what my ideas are, and even though they're wrong, even though it's an idea that can't be implemented right away, it's something that I'm putting out there so that other people can learn from it, and I can learn from it.

Roseanne Hui:

It's a little bit daunting at first because it's now a company of 6,000 people and putting your ideas on a public channel of 6,000 people can be really daunting and intimidating, and it still is. But I think I've come to realize that I have a lot to bring to the company and just realizing that I have my own talents and it's okay to be wrong, and it's okay to... It's okay to not have things implemented right away, just because of fear. It's something that I had to learn to reprogram my brain, in a way, through the coaching sessions.

Jamie Lee:

And I just want to add that you're not always wrong. Sometimes you're right.

Roseanne Hui:

No, no. It's just a way for people to brainstorm and to be collaborative and to put your name out there, really, and just be. And it's a little scary, but it's just that bravery and courage that you take that little leap and it feels good, even though they may not like your idea. But that's okay.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, because you can't control what they think.

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly, exactly. Even before coaching, I was scared to do that. So I would tell other people my ideas and they would take credit for those ideas. And me being an introvert and me being very quiet definitely did not help the situation for me. So with coaching, I was able to really break out of my shell a little bit and be more ballsy. That was my favorite word during coaching.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. So you became more ballsy, you were able to share your ideas as your own instead of delegating other people to share your ideas.

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly, exactly. And they would take credit for my work and I wouldn't. It's not a good feeling when people are taking credit for your work. And I don't blame them for that either. That's just the way that the work environment is. So just learning to stand up for myself and growing into that person that I want to be has, through coaching, has been really helpful.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. This is really amazing. Would you share with the audience how you got promoted? What was that journey like for you? Because there are women out there watching, listening to this, and they're like, "How do I get promoted? How did she do this?" She became more vocal. She started taking credit for her ideas, sharing more of her ideas, but then there was more, right?

Roseanne Hui:

Yeah, it was definitely a lot more. For a long time it was this, just like going through with the motions of, this is what I got to do. I have to just buckle down and do the menial stuff, stuff that I don't want to do anymore. And then, talking to my boss a lot and sharing those ideas with her, and just communicating with her more often and showing that I care and I'm present. And also, even though I'm not a leader, I wasn't a leader at the time, I still had those leadership qualities I wanted to bring to the team. And I think that's what my boss had noticed. Like, even though you don't have that official title, you still try. I still try to be a good leader for my team.

Roseanne Hui:

And because I was one of the longer, I was one of the veterans of the team, a lot of them looked up to me. A lot of them still ask, they ask me questions. So when I became that manager, when I became that leader, it really wasn't that much different than what it was before, because my team looked up to me before and my manager saw that. So when I was officially given that role, it was a really smooth transition.

Jamie Lee:

Like it was a continuity, continuation of you showing up as a leader.

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly, exactly.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And you also went for the promotion.

Roseanne Hui:

Yes.

Jamie Lee:

You asked for it, you asked for it multiple times.

Roseanne Hui:

I did. I did. And I also interviewed outside of the department, as well. And she approved it, and she was very supportive of that. She knew that I was trying to look for more responsibility, more leadership responsibility in particular. Because she knew that, because she knew that I was looking for more, I also wanted to show up for myself and say, "I can do more." And so it really was then a smooth transition for me when I officially got that title, and I got that pay raise.

Jamie Lee:

Amazing. Which you also asked for?

Roseanne Hui:

Yes, I did.

Jamie Lee:

Yes. You asked for the promotion, you asked for the pay raise, and you got it. It took some noes, but you were willing, you were ballsy, you were courageous.

Roseanne Hui:

Right.

Jamie Lee:

To keep going, even when you had some noes in the beginning.

Roseanne Hui:

Yes. And I mean, I had applied for other leadership roles in the company and I was also turned down, but that was fine. And I had a supportive boss that wanted to... she talked to me about it and she also mentored me a little bit, too, about interview questions and those little things, here and there. So yeah, just even though you're not a leader, I think my number one recommendation is if, even though you don't have that official leadership title, it means a lot even when you practice being a leader. Just because, people will notice it-

Jamie Lee:

Yes.

Roseanne Hui:

... before you get to that leadership role and that's huge.

Jamie Lee:

Yes, yeah. And so in this journey, when was the moment you realized coaching was working for you?

Roseanne Hui:

It was one of the sessions when we were trying to describe the color and shape of our feelings.

Jamie Lee:

Okay.

Roseanne Hui:

And it was realizing that you can't control everything and you can't control the people who are acting around you. And going back to this idea that I can fix everything and it's my fault if it's not going the way that I want it to go. And also, trying to face the pandemic, like that's the mission of this company is to face the pandemic, get the numbers down. But everyone is a go-getter in this company, it's growing so quickly. And so just being able to validate what I'm doing and giving myself credit for what I'm doing, and just coming to terms with, "You know what? That's enough. That's more than enough. I'm giving everything I can to this pandemic, and I care about my job so much.”

Roseanne Hui:

So just coming to terms with, I've given all that I can, and I'm still learning and I'm still doing the most that I can. So when a few things might slip through the cracks, things that you can't control, and that's okay.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Roseanne Hui:

For me, it wasn't healthy to just, to continue thinking about things that I couldn't handle. It just wasn't healthy.

Jamie Lee:

Let's just bring it down to a way people can understand. Because they were like, "What? Shapes and colors of your emotions? And that helped you? That was the moment? What does that mean?”

Roseanne Hui:

Oh, yeah.

Jamie Lee:

So what Roseanne is talking about is how you access, like feeling what you feel, instead of trying to control other people and circumstances outside of you in order to feel more successful, in order to feel more safe, in order to feel more certain or confident.

Roseanne Hui:

Right.

Jamie Lee:

Because this is the default way that we've been taught to operate in the world, like control other things, things outside of you, and then you'll feel better and then you'll feel happy and confident. But instead, what we did in the coaching session was like, "No, let's observe what is here now, what emotion you do feel. And then let's gain agency and authority over it by being able to sit with it and describe it.”

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Roseanne Hui:

And it was coming to this realization, like coming face-to-face with the feeling of, it's okay to be. It's okay to let go sometimes. And it's also, for me, it was a fearful moment for me to let go, as well, because it's something that I'm not used to. I'm always used to holding on, making sure things are peachy and perfect the way that they're supposed to be. It was not healthy for me to think that way. But that also really helps me with my professional life, also my personal life, as well. Because I'm very much like that in my, I was like that in my personal life, as well.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, and you're not the only one. We all try to do this. We all try to control people in our work lives and our personal lives so that we can feel a different way. And then we're like, "Why isn't it working?" And then we get even more frustrated and then burned out.

Roseanne Hui:

Yes, yes.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Roseanne Hui:

Definitely. I was definitely getting burnt out and I really, one of our sessions was really just about my personal health and my mental health and trying to balance the two. Because being manager and being in that leadership position is more responsibility, and so just learning to balance that and giving myself... All of it really is just trying to give myself a lot of credit for what I've done.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah.

Roseanne Hui:

And I think a lot of it came with imposter syndrome, as well, just because everyone in the company, a lot of people in the company are very smart and young, and I felt maybe I wasn't good enough. However, my boss saw that I was working really hard and I was trying to be a leader, even though I didn't have that title. So just a lot of things happened very quickly in this company, and the tools that I got from coaching really just aligned my views and just cleaned everything up a little bit for me, so that I could think more clearly about myself. So I felt like I was really well equipped to handle a lot of the issues that I handled after our coaching, our last session.

Jamie Lee:

Wonderful. And so how is your career and life different now that you have these tools?

Roseanne Hui:

I will say it's, of course it's a little bit more chaotic, because with the new role, there are more responsibilities that come with it. But I'm also not as bothered. I'm not as bothered as I used to be about people in the company who may not have your best interest at heart, or don't see your mission for what you want to do with your team. They may not have the same views as you. They may disagree with you. They may even be rude to you. I've noticed that yes, it's something that I recognize as, it's upsetting when these things happen. But at the same time, it's things that are out of my control. And so what I can only do is to do the best I can for my team and for myself, and continue to share with my boss that I'm doing the best that I can. So really it's just, using that same idea has been immensely helpful.

Jamie Lee:

Great. And so then, what becomes possible now that you're less bothered and less invested in things that you cannot control?

Roseanne Hui:

I've really learned to reprogram my brain and focus my energy elsewhere on things that I do want to do, on my own ideas that I want to do with this company and with this role. So instead of really harping on this negative introspection that, "This person is not doing what I want to do, or they're not listening to me or they're not understanding me, or they're not being very nice about it, they're being rude," so what? That's just who they are. I have to do the best that I can do with my own abilities. And just coming to the realization that you can't control everything along with this pandemic. We want this pandemic to go away, but we have to navigate it in a certain way that allows that.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, yeah. And I think there's so much more value that you can add because you're able to free up that mental and emotional bandwidth to do it the best you can, especially because you're in the front lines of this pandemic. We really need you.

Roseanne Hui:

Yeah. So yeah, it's just like a complete chaotic moment at this company. It's great. Everyone's working hard. It's chaotic. People aren't sleeping enough. And so certain personalities are going to rub up against each other. But just really trying to focus your 24-hours in a day to focus on what's best for you and what's best for your work and your mental health and your own professional development, rather than trying to fixate on other people's negative behavior that you really can't control. Because, there's really nothing you can do about them. The only thing I can do is try and make myself better and handle my own feelings in a way that is positive for me.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, and when you do that, then you're able to show up and do your best.

Roseanne Hui:

Exactly.

Jamie Lee:

Do better work. So this is so good. Is there anything else that you want to share, or maybe you have a word of advice for somebody who might be in a similar position as you? Maybe they're also working on the front lines of the pandemic, and they're also trying to maneuver office politics. Is there any, anything that you want to share with them?

Roseanne Hui:

I think it's really discouraging sometimes to feel like you're hopeless or you're not able, or your efforts aren't being rewarded, or you're not being compensated for that. So just continuing to be that leader in yourself. Even if you have a small team around you, of four to five people, showing up for them and showing up for yourself and being a leader for them is really enough for you to... for me, in my opinion, for it to be noticed.

Roseanne Hui:

And I think just being on the front lines and being in a pandemic, is just incredibly stressful. And there's a lot of bureaucracy that's in the way of things, and it might not make things as efficient as you'd like it to be. But showing up for the patients and showing up for your team is the most rewarding thing that I've had from this pandemic, and from this company. So it's been truly rewarding. And with coaching, it's just been so helpful, and I honestly don't know what I would've done without you Jamie. I don't know where I would be right now.

Jamie Lee:

I just really want to acknowledge you for your courage. I want to acknowledge you for your service, and you do it from such a place of generosity, and of genuinely wanting to help people, genuinely wanting to help people do better, especially now in this pandemic. The suffering is real, and you're playing a real important part in helping us deal with it. So thank you so much, Roseanne, for giving us your time and sharing your experience with us. I appreciate you.

Roseanne Hui:

Thank you so much for having me. Always a delight to see you, Jamie.

Jamie Lee:

Same here. All right.

Roseanne Hui:

Bye.

End of transcript

If you’re a smart mid-career woman seeking solutions to navigate office politics and get promoted and better paid, I can help you. You’re invited to book a complimentary consultation, where I’ll help you see how we might work together to solve your specific problem.

Click here to book your consult